Most people were horrified upon hearing Republican presidential candidate Donald J. Trump describe sexually assaulting women on порнографии мультикa video taped in 2005. Even his wife, Melania Trump, and his daughter, Ivanka, said the comments were "unacceptable," "inappropriate," and "offensive."
The backlash to Trump's comments prompted countless women to share their own stories of sexual assault. But now that public debate has turned to ending rape culture and sexual violence, people may find it difficult to know what they can do to make those goals a reality.
SEE ALSO: What Donald Trump's comments mean to me as a survivor of sexual assaultKamilah Willingham, cofounder of the advocacy group Survivors Eradicating Rape Culture, believes that action must include changing how men talk about women and their bodies.
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"[Trump's comments] were terrible because it really was about how men in power demonstrate their power to other men using the degradation of women."
While no one expects men (or women) to stop talking about sexual attraction with friends, Willingham says there is a vast difference between a respectful, candid discussion and the vulgar, violent exchange heard on the audio recording of Trump and former Access Hollywoodhost Billy Bush.
"The conversation wasn’t just them discussing a passive appreciation for women," Willingham says. "It was talking about how you see something you want and you go after it. The conversation doesn’t take into account the wants or needs of the person or even if that person has wants or needs."
Despite allegations of sexual assault that match the details of Trump's comments, some have argued that his private remarks amount to nothing more than macho posturing. Trump himself has called it "locker room talk."
Either way, such language is damaging to both women and men, says Sam Polk, a former hedge fund trader who wrote a New York Times op-ed about the toxic effect of "bro talk" on Wall Street.
"[Trump's comments] in particular were terrible because it really was about how men in power demonstrate their power to other men using the degradation of women," says Polk.
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Though Trump's case is extreme, both Willingham and Polk believe it holds universal lessons for how to have a conversation about attraction without dehumanizing women. If you're going to talk about sexually desiring a woman, here are five indications you're straying dangerously close to "locker room talk":
1. Would you say any of this to her face?
The simplest rule of thumb for gauging whether a conversation has veered into unseemly territory, says Polk, is whether you'd feel comfortable making the same comments to a woman in person. While every woman will have different boundaries for what feels appropriate — some might appreciate specificity while others are comfortable with vague compliments — using this general rule should give you a quick indication about the respectfulness of your comments.
2. Are you just talking about her body parts?
The human body is indeed beautiful and people often develop preferences for which features they find particularly appealing. Acknowledging that is normal, says Willingham, but if your conversation is limited to rating a woman's physique and anatomy, you're probably neglecting to see her as a complex human being with emotions and aspirations of her own.
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The point is not to compensate by insincerely referencing her intellect or sense of humor, but to fully understand how reducing her to body parts may diminish your respect for her humanity and agency.
3. Is the sexual attraction mutual?
If you're talking about a woman as a sexual object but you have no idea if she desires you —or know she doesn't — it's time to take a step back. Willingham says it's essential to understand if the attraction is mutual and whether the answer to that question is important to you.
If your feelings are unreciprocated or you don't care about a woman's interest, chances are the way you're talking about her isn't respectful. Such a conversation may also be premised on the dangerous notion that she'll eventually succumb to your entreaties. That mentality can lead to much worse than just crude private discussions.
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"The oldest foundation of rape culture is that women want or need to be cajoled or cornered into sex," says Willingham.
4. Are you talking about her as if she's a conquest?
Some men may see playing up their sexual pursuits as a standard expression of masculinity, but Polk believes that framework is deeply troubling.
"There is a modus operandi in guy culture that is about stealing from women, taking something from them, taking virginity, getting them to sleep with you," he says. "It's almost like a point of pride [or] notches on your belt."
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When women encounter that callousness or aggression, it can be a devastating experience. So if your private language views women as a conquest, you can't expect your actions to look dramatically different.
5. Would you regret your comments if they were captured on audio or video?
Think of this as the Trump rule. If your comments could threaten your job or public standing because they describe questionable views or behavior, then find a new way to express how you feel.
And if you'd be embarrassed to publicly take part in such a conversation, do what you can to shut it down by saying something as simple as, "This is making me really uncomfortable" or "That's not how I talk about women."
Speaking up will always come with risks, but only men can stand up for the dignity of women in private settings.
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Willingham says that how men define their masculinity will inevitably shape how they talk about women.
"If your view of masculinity is to have sex but put yourself as equals with women," she says, "then these conversations will naturally look different."